Home Grown Terror: Author Peter Klismet's book about the largest manhunt in the West

By Mark Young

Author Peter M. Klismet’s latest book, FBI Diary: Home Grown Terror, reads like a crime-thriller fiction novel. Bullets flying. Stolen vehicles. Camo-clad terrorists. High-speed chases through rural America. One of the greatest manhunts in American western history winding up in some of the most rugged lands this country has to offer. 

Former FBI special agent Klismet writes about this event from the inside—as a participant in a manhunt for three cop-killers that disappeared into an unforgiving wilderness. It began Friday, May 29, 1998 on a warm spring morning on the streets of a small town in southwest Colorado. What started as a traffic stop for a suspected stolen truck became a fight for survival for many officers and an event that shocked the entire region.

Welcome author Klismet to Hook’em and Book’em!

MARK: Pete, thanks for returning to this blog to discuss your latest non-fiction book, FBI Diary: Home Grown Terror. It has been over two years since you wrote a guest blog for us about your first book, FBI Diary: Profile of Evil, and your experiences as a criminal profiler for the bureau. Tell our readers a little about your latest book about home-grown terrorists in Colorado.

PETE: And thank you, Mark, for having me back on your blog, which is one of the best ones around.

In May of 1998, a small cadre of three young, anti-government, paramilitary

extremists were spotted in a stolen water truck by an officer in Cortez, Colorado, and pulled over to the side of the road. One of the men jumped out of the truck with a fully-automatic weapon, peppering the police car and Officer Dale Claxton with round after round of bullets. And then the chase was on. The three men commandeered a flatbed construction truck, and wrought a path of destruction as they were chased by police cars, sheriff’s deputies and state patrolmen. The men put seven police vehicles out of commission and shot two more officers before racing forty miles into the forsaken desert wilderness and canyons near the Four Dorners. It became a national news story, not unlike the recent prison escape in New York State. With over five hundred officers from state, federal and local agencies, as well as Indian Reservation officers, it is still considered the largest manhunt in the history of the modern West. And it is a search which took nearly a decade to conclude.

MARK: I can only imagine what it must have been like trying to work within the confines of a manhunt that encompassed local, state and federal agencies from a three-state area. In the book, I thought you were very forthright about some of the problems that developed between these agencies. How did you manage to get the job done without losing your cool? What were some of the challenges you faced?

PETE: Fortunately, coordinating the search teams was not my responsibility, nor did I have a role in the ground search for the three killers. My job was supporting the investigation, identifying the three men, and working to build a prosecutable case once they were found. Regrettably, that never occurred, which is one of the more compelling parts of the story.

In doing some fairly extensive research for the book, however, I did interview a number of people who were directly involved with or coordinated the search efforts. It has saddened me to see many times over the years how people’s egos can get in the way of getting the job done. There was constant disagreement between numerous agencies, even including the Indian Reservation police. The FBI, the sheriff of a small county in Utah, the National Guard, and even the governor of Colorado, among others, were constantly in disagreement over how the search was to be conducted. Whether or not this contributed to the eventual resolution of the case is not known. But there was more than enough drama to go around, and at times it put the lives of searching officers at risk.

MARK: You write about this tragedy from a unique position. What were the motivating factors prompting you to sit down and relive this experience?

PETE: While I was in Cortez, I vowed to write a book about this case ‘someday.’ I had collected a considerable number of reports, some of which I wrote. I took over thirty pictures, some of which are inside the book. I collected news accounts for over a year. When a cop is killed, it becomes a personal issue for other cops. It took me almost seventeen years to complete the book and to keep the vow I made. I’m glad I did to venerate the memory of Officer Claxton.

MARK: Hindsight is always easier than living in the moment as things are happening all around you. Looking back, what would you have done differently in this manhunt to locate these suspects quicker?

PETE: Other than the bosses constantly being at odds, I don’t know what else we could have done to make the search easier. In hindsight, as you say, it turned out to be an unresolvable search, except for an incident when one of the three fugitives shot at a deputy sheriff and then killed himself. While we didn’t know it at the time, our efforts proved to be meaningless into the final resolution of the case. Let me simply add that it was plain luck, as often seems to happen, that the entire matter was resolved. But it was some very dramatic luck as the book points out.

MARK: Your book raises some interesting insights into possible motives driving these criminals that may have prompted them to commit these acts. Do you think that some of these motivations might reach a broader group of receptive people in light of what has happened to this country over the last seventeen years?

I think we can all agree that our rights to privacy have shrunk considerably since 1998, and the reach of government has grown beyond anything we could have imagined. People who might not otherwise think about living off the grid, for example, might have reconsidered their opinions based upon recent national trends. Certainly this broader group of citizens would not applaud what these three criminals did in Colorado, but they might share the frustration and fear that our government has overstepped its bounds. What are your thoughts?

PETE: Actually, these three had something of a fan club, and there were many people in the area with anti-government feelings who would have gladly helped them escape if possible. Since it was a national story and got major news coverage from all the large media outlets, people of a similar ilk around the country express their approval in many ways. I’d have to say these three men, like Timothy McVeigh, felt the government was far too oppressive and perhaps they believed they were the leading edge of a revolution they thought would follow. 

A lot of these anti-government sentiments started back in the 1980’s with the Farm  Crisis in the USA. However, one could also argue it started much earlies, and that the Civil Rights Movement in the 50’s and 60’s contributed, as certainly did the Vietnam War. We have more than a few issues facing our country right now, and it will be interesting to see which one surfaces as the next threat to the country.

MARK: How would you classify your three suspects—Jason McVean, Robert Mason, and Monte Pilon? Do they fit in the category of domestic terrorists, or did their anti-government rhetoric just lend them self-aggrandizing justification to commit common criminal acts of robbery and theft for personal gain?

PETE: That’s really a good question because we tend to ascribe ‘mastermind’ status to some of our criminal, most of whom are anything but. In this case, we have one leader and two bonehead followers—but all of them were equally violent. Toward the end of the book, I analyze all of the different theories as to ‘why’ they did what they did. While we’ll never know, my analysis brought the facts down to one common denominator—committing a robbery of large scale. I think I make a case for this, and I still don’t think I can be talked out of it.

MARK: What have you been up to in your writing career since your last contact with us here on Hook’em and Book’em?

PETE: In between this book and FBI Diary: Profiles of Evil, I published another book entitled FBI Animal House. This one chronicles some of the madcap adventures of my class at the FBI Academy, has plenty of funny stories of our antics, and truly exposes the fact that FBI agents are really people, just like everyone else.

MARK: Can you share with us any books that you might be working on for future release?

PETE: After several meetings with myself, I have started writing a bok with a rather unique, and hopefully ‘catchy title’—Sleeping With Torpedoes.” Before I ever went into law enforcement, I was part of the crew of an old, World War II diesel/electric sub marine. We had plenty of ‘adventures,’ and two interesting tours off the coast of Vietnam during the war. It’s something of a memoir, as are all my books, but really only amounts to a four-year slice of what has turned out to be a fairly interesting life.

MARK: Where can people go to find out more about your writing, or to buy your books?

PETE: Probably the best way is to check my website, which is Criminal Profiling Associates. I get quite a few ‘hits’ and referrals to assit law enforcement agencies with unsolved cases on the site. But I also try to keep my readers not only posted on what I’ve been up to lately, but profiles of all my books. It’s a good website, I think, mainly because my wife designed it!

MARK: Any other thoughts or comments you would like to make before we part ways?

PETE: You know, I’ve been thinking about this lately. There is something about the concept of ‘retiring’ I simply don’t get. You hear a lot of retired people say how busy they are, but I think a lot of it is less than true. Maybe busy sitting around and watching the daily soap operas. I truly am never out of something to do. In the last week, for example I spoke before a group of about 200, and a second group of 50. We took a bunch of books with us and sold the majority. I’m constantly doing that type of thing to promote my books, and I do a fair job of keeping my publishers happy. Plus, I’m trying to work on my fourth book, and have several others in mind. I am also an on-air consultant to CNN, MSNBC, and couple of local television stations, newspapers in Colorado, and even Canada’s version of CNN, Canadian TV. When something big happens, I am often called and appear on anyone of the outlets. I‘d like to get out and play some golf, but I have a hard time doing it. I doubt I’ll ever truly retire until I find myself on the south end of the grass. But as I tell Miss Nancy, I have way too much stuff left to do to die!

MARK: Again, thanks for joining us, Pete. Best wishes on the success of your latest book.

*********

Peter M. Klismet served his country with two tours in Vietnam on submarines. Following military service, he earned a college degree, then worked for the Ventura Police Department in Southern California. While there, he attended graduate school, earning two master’s degrees. He was offered and accepted an appointment as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

In a twenty-year career with the FBI, the author was highly-decorated, served with distinction in three field offices, and received numerous awards and recognition from the FBI. Klismet was selected to be one of the original ‘profilers’ for the FBI, perhaps the FBI’s most famed unit. Before his retirement, he was named the 1999 National Law Enforcement Officer of the Year.

Following his retirement, he accepted a position as an Associate Professor and Department Chair of a college Criminal Justice program. Having now retired from that, Pete and his wife, Nancy, live in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Narco-Traffickers, Murders & Mexican Cartels: All in a day's work for cop-turned-writer C.L. Swinney

By Mark Young

Author Chris Swinney—writing as C.L. Sweeney—pens stories drawn from his own experiences. His day job is catching bad guys and whenever he can grab a few extra moments—he writes about them. Chris’ non-writing job is as a detective with a sheriff’s office in California. He has been loaned out to work on a Department of Justice task force focusing on drug trafficking and violent crimes. As an author, he writes crime thrillers, his debut novel Gray Ghost released a few weeks ago and his  second novel Collectors coming out later this year. It is always refreshing to read fiction written by someone who has lived the life—you know the cop-stuff is dead on. Chris is one of those writers.

Mark: Chris, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us here on Hook’em & Book’em. Tell us a little bit about your day job as a detective with the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office in California.

Chris: First, thanks for having me on Hook’em & Book’em. Now, a little bit about my job. I’m assigned to a DOJ Task Force as a representative of the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office. We basically do everything, from street level dealers and crimes against people to large scale narcotics and homicide investigations. This basically means we try to plan our days, but normally something else pops up that needs to be handled.

Mark:  As a crime fiction writer, I am highly interested in your expertise in cell phone forensics. On television and in the movies, viewers have grown accustomed to having law enforcement use cell phone technology to track down and catch bad guys. Everything from retrieving cell phone conversations to backtracking a person’s movement based upon tower pings and other contrivances. Tell us where reality leaves off and fantasy begins with cell phone forensics. What does law enforcement hope to gain from cell phone forensic? 

Chris: Without giving up too much information, I’d say cell phone forensics has gotten better and has led to solving crimes. Some of the stuff you see on TV is a little exaggerated, but I can tell someone with a cell phone forensic background has schooled them on what to do and say. Law enforcement is always behind in this technology, however, and we struggle with knowing others (NSA and secret squirrels) have the ability to assist local law enforcement, but they choose not to share the technology.  

Mark:  You are a narcotics detective assigned to work a task force operation with the Department of Justice. Tell us about these duties. Who do you team up with? Who are your general targets—street level traffickers, organized crime groups, Mexican cartels?

Chris: We team up with anyone who asks us for help or we work together as one large team. Some days we can’t get to our own work because major issues spring up, but, it’s satisfying when we’re successful. Among the other interesting things we do, I get to process clandestine labs, which helps keep the community safer. We also work organized crime groups, cartels, and essentially anyone doing bad things from San Francisco down to Monterey.

Mark:  What do you see as major drug trafficking trends? Years ago, cocaine exploded on the scene and flooded the market. A short time later, meth became a serious problem within our communities, later morphing into crystal meth. And heroin, which has plagued us forever, is always lurking out there looking for more victims—i.e., tragic death of Hunger Games star Phillip Seymour Hoffman last month. What are you seeing now as an emerging threat to our communities?

Chris:  I hate to say this, but ALL the drugs are on the streets in an alarming amount. In the San Francisco Bay Area, crystal methamphetamine is probably the most used and seen, but recently I found two kilos of cocaine on a guy, so you can’t dismiss cocaine. We have young people using heroin because it’s cheaper than OxyContin. And, we know heroin is being used, but we tend to focus on the crystal methamphetamine. As far as a trend, I’d say we’re not getting the support we need from the community or the people with the money these days. Having said that, we don’t give up and we continue to try to make the surrounding communities safer. Not really an “emerging” threat, but one that needs to be discussed, is the rampant abuse of pharmaceutical pills. 

Mark: As part of drug trafficking investigations, you are sometimes required to use wire taps to gather evidence. Explain to our readers the reality of this investigative technique, its limitations, and how it differs from what we see on television or in the movies.

Chris: The wire taps I’ve worked have been wild, from complex narco trafficking to murder for hire. However, they are very difficult to obtain and we tend to keep the entire process a secret. As far as the TV shows or movies I’ve seen featuring wire taps, they’ve been a little off. We don’t “flip a switch” or snap a finger and start hearing phone calls. It takes months to develop these types of cases.

Mark: Let’s switch subjects and talk about your writing life. Last

year, you came out with your debut novel, Gray Ghost, a crime thriller that takes place in the Bahamas where your main characters discover their fishing guides died in a mysterious explosion. Give our readers a little taste of what to expect?

Chris: I’ve always had a passion for the outdoors and law enforcement, so I took personal experiences and what I see every day and wrote a novel. I wrote inverted, that is, the reader knows fairly early on who the bad guy is, but I leave enough doubt and concern to provide a climatic ending.

Mark: How did you come up with the idea for this plot?

Chris: While flying into Andros, Bahamas, I noticed several downed planes on the tiny runway. I asked the locals about the planes and quickly learned about the narcotic trafficking occurring on the island headed to Miami. I interviewed and spoke to law enforcement, coast guard, and locals. Then, I just mulled the idea for years while life sort of took over. Fast forward eight years and I get into law enforcement-eventually working narcotics. It took four years for the novel to get published.

Mark: I would imagine your day job takes a big bite out of your time. What kind of writing schedule do you follow?

Chris: My writing schedule is as chaotic as my job. I write any time I can. Sometimes I speak out loud in my car into my cell phone recorder when I’m sitting on surveillance. When I get home, I help with the kids and try to write after that. When I have something that needs to be completed or an upcoming deadline, I buckle down and get it done.

Mark: What is your next writing project? Where are you in this process?

Chris: The next novel in the Bill Dix series is called Collectors. It’s written and I’m editing it now. I was able to feature a mentor of mine in the novel, Koti Fakava, who passed away unexpectedly leaving his wife and five kids. I’m donating the proceeds from Collectors to Koti’s family. I can’t describe how excited I am about this project. I’ve been able to get some great support, and the book is contracted. It should be out sometime in August.

Mark: Since you have one novel under your belt, what have you learned about the publishing and marketing business? Are there some things you might change or do differently this next time out?

Chris: I’ve learned quite a bit about the industry in the last five years. Publishing and marketing is a very difficult business. There are publishers out there that will prey on people who desperately want to see their work in print. I think if you continue to write and write well, you will get published. I think if you stick to your work and find an audience for it, you will become successful. I think it’s amazing to get published, but the real work comes with promoting. There are over ten million books on Amazon; somehow you must find a way to compete with all of them. As far as what I might try differently, I did that when I found a new publisher. I’m hopeful that I can be successful and keep my sanity while continuing to entertain readers.

Mark: Where can readers find you in the social media world? How can they reach you if they have any further questions?

Chris: I’m a big social media guy. I’m on Twitter, Facebook, Linked-In, Instagram (clswinney), Google+, and Goodreads. If you can’t reach me on these sites, you can reach my via email at swinster11@yahoo.com Thanks again for this wonderful opportunity!

********

About the Author: Chris Swinney (C. L. Swinney), is currently assigned to a Department of Justice Task Force that investigates a myriad of cases ranging from street level drug dealers and bank robbers to homicides and complex Mexican Cartel cases. When criminals run, Chris is called to find them. He puts his unbelievable experiences and everyday life as a Detective into his writing.

Chris officially began his writing career when his feature article was published in Fly Fisherman Magazine. After this, his work continued to appear in PointsBeyond.com, Alaskan Peninsula Newspaper, California Game & Fish, and again in Fly Fisherman Magazine. He's now a contributor to PoliceOne.com, the nation's premier law enforcement online magazine.

Getting Inside A Cop’s Head: Interview with Ellen Kirschman, Police Psychologist

By Mark Young

Dr. Ellen Kirschman

Fiction writers are always trying to figure out what makes a cop tick. What makes cops run toward danger rather than fleeing from danger? Are there any psychological motivations and stresses that might make a law enforcement officer crack or cross the line between law abider and law breaker? How far can their characters be pushed in the novel until their world collapses?

 There are a few writers who have been granted a rare glimpse into the cop culture—their motivations, their fears, and their worst nightmares. Police Psychologist Ellen Kirschmen is one of those unique individuals who has gained access to police culture for more than thirty years. 

Ellen wrote about cops in her doctorate dissertation titled Wounded Heroes. Her first book, titled I Love A Cop: What Police Families Need to Know, was motivated by her desire to help law enforcement families cope with the stresses of the job. Later, Ellen wrote Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know to help mental health professionals and others to know how to relate to cops. Several months ago, Ellen came out with her first mystery novel, Burying Ben, a story about a female police psychologist trying to survive the police culture as a civilian, a woman, and a political liberal. The world of main character Dot Meyerhoff is turned upside down when a rookie cop by the name of Ben—whom she is counseling—unexpectantly commits suicide and leaves behind a note blaming Dot for his death.

MARK: Ellen, welcome to Hook’em and Book’em. I would personally like to thank you for helping those in law enforcement face the psychological challenges of the job. In my career, I have witnessed the damage the job has done to these officers and I know the barriers you must have faced during your career. Thank you! 

That being said, I also must add that I know that in some cases harm has been inflicted on officers when psychologists did not understand the police culture, they violated confidences, or when police departments used these psychologists as a means of discipline to force the cop off the job.

I imagine it is a fine line you must tread when trying to help these officers and their families. Before we get into this subject more deeply, please explain to our readers how you became a police psychologist and what are the goals of this unique professional?

ELLEN: I was working as a clinical social worker in a psychiatric clinic. Several of my clients were married

to cops (this was a long time ago when there were few women officers) and the stories they told about their home lives were quite distressing. When I asked my clients to invite their husbands to a session, not only did the husbands never show up, their wives quit therapy soon after. All this piqued my interest: what was it about the job that created such problems for families? More out of enthusiasm than experience, I put together a class called "I Love a Cop" at my local community college. The first session was filled to capacity and there were 40+ women on the waiting list. I had stumbled into an unfilled need. 

There are approximately 250 police psychologists in the US. By that I mean those whose practices are primarily devoted to public safety and who belong to recognized police psychology organizations such as the police psychological services section (PPSS) of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Over the past several years, the profession has received recognition as a specialty by the American Board of Professional Psychology. In brief, the goal of the profession has been to apply behavioral science principles that are ethically and empirically based to problems facing law enforcement at both the individual and organizational level.  The four basic domains of police psychology practice are assessment, organizational consultation, intervention, and operational assistance. Many, if not most, police psychologists have assessment practices. My background is in the consultation and intervention domains. 

MARK:  The police culture is very guarded for obvious reasons—public scrutiny, possible civil or criminal sanctions, and fear for the safety of their families to name a few. It would seem your success in helping officers might depend upon how they got to your office—voluntarily seeking counseling or department-mandated Fitness For Duty (FFD) evaluations. Please define the differences between the goals of voluntary counseling and FFD evaluations?

ELLEN: My practice has always been voluntary. In fact, I spent twenty-five years consulting to one agency where my office was located on the flight path between the briefing room and the locker room. This was an unusual decision made by the officer-led task force who hired me. They wanted to normalize counseling and make it part of healthy self-care. Officers had the option to see me in a private location as well. I did a lot of counseling "on the hoof." Apparently, standing up and talking while leaning on the doorsill doesn't count as therapy. Neither does talking in patrol cars or in the locker room.

There are two major differences between voluntary counseling and FFD evaluations. 1) In an FFD the client is the agency who requests the FFD, not the officer; and 2) There is no confidentiality for the officer in an FFD. In voluntary counseling a clinician could lose his or her license for violating confidentiality. The only exceptions are when the client is a danger to self or others, abusing a child or an elderly person, or incapable of caring for self.

MARK: Under what conditions are FFDs ordered by the police departments?

ELLEN: FFDs have never been my speciality. Your readers are best served by checking out the FFD Evaluation Guidelines published by the PPSS. According to those guidelines the purpose of an FFD is to determine whether the employee is able to safely and effectively perform his or her essential job functions. A FFD is considered when there is an objective, reasonable basis, founded on direct observation, credible third party report, or other reliable evidence, that the employee's ability to work safely and effectively is in question. An FFD should never be used as discipline. Nor, for that matter, should mental health providers ever be used as stand-ins for decent supervision.  

MARK: Let’s switch gears for a moment. You have just released your first novel titled Burying Ben. What is the gist of this novel?

ELLEN: Dr. Dot Meyer has barely settled into her new job as department psychologist for the Kenilworth Police when Ben Gomez, a troubled young rookie that she tries to counsel kills himself. Overnight, her promising new start becomes a nightmare. At stake is her job, her reputation, her license to practice, and her already battered sense of self-worth. Dot resolves to find out not just what led Ben to kill himself, but why her psychologist ex-husband, the man she most wants to avoid, recommended that Ben be hired in the first place. Ben’s surviving family and everyone else connected to him are determined to keep Ben’s story a secret, by any means necessary. Even Ben, from the grave, has secrets to keep. By the time she uncovers the real reasons behind Ben’s suicide and brings the people responsible to justice, Dot has not only resurrected belief in herself, she has also acquired some surprisingly useful new skills: impersonating a public official, burglary, and assault with a deadly weapon. 

MARK: What motivated you to write this story?

ELLEN: I was delusional. After writing two non-fiction books, I actually thought it would be easier to make things up. It isn't. I've always worried that a client of mine would kill him or herself and I've wondered how I would cope with the guilt. Writing Burying Ben gave me a chance to work this out on paper. Writing fiction is payback time. I get to take pot shots at cops, at my fellow psychologists, at my ex-husbands, and myself. Lastly, and most importantly, it is time to talk about police suicide and the fact that officers are two, perhaps three, times as likely to kill themselves as they are to be killed in the line of duty.

MARK: You found switching from non-fiction to fiction to be challenging but I suspect you are having fun. Am I right?

ELLEN: Very challenging but a lot more fun. Writing non-fiction is a journalistic endeavor. The challenge is to get your facts right and present them in an understandable, readable package. Fiction requires the writer to capture the reader's imagination so that he or she is locked into the story, cares about the characters and wants to know how the whole thing turns out. Non-fiction readers can pick up a book and put it down again at will. A good novel should have the reader baring her teeth at anyone or anything that interrupts her before she finishes the story. 

MARK:  Just prior to the release of Burying Ben, you and two other colleagues released a non-fiction book Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know. Is this strictly targeted toward clinicians, or would others—like fiction authors—find this book of value in understanding cops?

ELLEN: Several mystery writers have told me that they own dog-eared copies of I Love a Cop that they use for inspiration. I think Counseling Cops could be equally helpful. The book is targeted toward anyone who counsels law enforcement officers; in addition to mental health providers that would include chaplains, medical doctors, and peer supporters. 

MARK:  What was the purpose behind writing Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know? Can you provide us an example as to why this book is necessary?

ELLEN: The purpose of writing Counseling Cops was to create culturally competent clinicians. My two co-authors are both retired officers as well as psychologists. Their experiences on-and-off the job make this a much richer book than had I written it myself. As you know, cops find it very difficult to ask for help. They're supposed to solve problems, not have them. To a cop, having problems equals being weak. So when pressure mounts and an officer finally reaches out for help, he or she deserves to see a provider who understands cops and the culture in which they work. Here are two examples from the book of how things can go wrong: 

"Tracy was looking for a therapist. The first therapist he consulted teared up and didn’t think she could bear listening to the kinds of challenges he encountered at work. The second therapist reassured Tracy that he understood the impact of carrying great responsibility because many of his clients were CEOs of large organizations. Tracy responded in anger. 'When a CEO makes a mistake, the company loses money. When I make a mistake someone dies.'" The therapist Tracy finally chose was a combat veteran who knew firsthand what it meant to put your life on the line and the costs of doing it year after year." P. 6.

"Bill had been in two shootings that resulted in his killing two suspects. He was having nightmares and seriously considering quitting police work in order to avoid the possibility of a third deadly encounter. His department EAP referred him to a local clinician who had a lot of experience, none of which involved law enforcement. This was Bill’s first-ever counseling session. The therapist listened to Bill’s story carefully. When Bill was finished talking the therapist asked him “So, are you ready to stop killing people?” Bill left the session very upset. It wasn’t until he talked to some of his friends who had been in therapy that he learned how inappropriate and un-therapeutic this question was and accepted another referral to someone familiar with the police culture." P.8

MARK: What are some of the more prevalent issues you deal with when a law enforcement officers walks through your door? 

ELLEN: As you said earlier, trust and confidentiality are probably the biggest hurdles to forming a therapeutic alliance. In terms of clinical issues, or common problems, cops probably don't vary greatly from their civilian counterparts. I don't know of a scientific answer to your question, but I'd say family problems probably top the list. The issues we cover in Counseling Cops are alcoholism, substance abuse and addiction, depression and suicide, trauma, organizational stress and betrayal, family issues, growing old on the job, sleep deprivation and shift work, and something we call the Emergency Responder's Exhaustion Syndrome which is a combination of depression, exhaustion, isolation, and anger. 

MARK: A lot has changed in the law enforcement community in the last 30 years—including the way stress-related issues are understood and handled by officers and police departments. What are some of the positive changes you have witnessed that might help these officers survive?

ELLEN: Critical incident debriefings are common these days. They vary, of course, in effectiveness, but they are way more helpful than choir practice. Large urban departments and many smaller ones now routinely provide access to low cost confidential counseling as well as police chaplains. In my opinion, one of the best changes is having well-trained and well-managed peer support teams. Cops like talking to other cops, if they can be trusted.

MARK: What are some of the areas that law enforcement might do a better job in helping these officers cope?

ELLEN: I would like to see every agency, big and small, have a confidential peer support program including family members, family orientations at first hire and again every five years, a chaplaincy program, supervisors who are knowledgeable about spotting mental health issues and compassionate when talking to their officers, and easy access for officers and their families to culturally competent, confidential, low cost counseling. I'd like to see police academies devote more time to teaching officers how to manage stress and develop resilience, and I'd like to see field training programs incorporate behavioral science principles and promote wellness, both physical and psychological. 

MARK: What suggestions would you give authors trying to create plausible and realistic cop characters? What sources of information would you suggest?

ELLEN: You mean after reading my books? Go on a ride-along. After all these years I still learn something new every time I do. Attend a citizens' academy. You'll learn a lot and have an opportunity to interact with officers. Volunteer at your local police department. Whatever you do, don't watch cop shows on television. 

MARK: Any other suggestions as to how these authors might obtain a better understanding of this closed culture?

ELLEN: Learn about guns. Practice on the range. Try your hand at a firearms training simulator (FATS). If you're qualified and have the time to invest, consider becoming a reserve officer or putting yourself through a police academy. 

MARK: Are you still a practicing police psychologist or are you pursuing other goals at this point in your life?

ELLEN: I no longer have a private practice. I do continue to teach peer support, self-care for cops, give workshops for public safety families, and for clinicians who want to work with first responders. My biggest commitment is to the West Coast Post Trauma Retreat (WCPR) for first responders with post traumatic stress injuries (PTSI). I volunteer to do four six-day retreats a year. If any of your readers and their spouses or significant others are suffering with symptoms of PTSI, I encourage them to find out more about this amazingly effective, all volunteer, peer driven, clinically guided program at www.wcpr2001.org. 

MARK:  What is ahead in your writing career? More fiction? More non-fiction?

ELLEN: More fiction. I've just completed the first draft of the second Dot Meyerhoff mystery and I can't wait to start revising. 

MARK: What would be one thing you’d like to share with new police officers just starting out in their career?

ELLEN: Remember, this is a job, not an identity (nobody wants to hear that, especially not rookies). Work hard to find some balance in life. Police work entails a lot of negativity. Negativity is contagious. Try not to catch it. Remember that all you can control in life is your professionalism and your integrity. Don't waste time trying to change anyone else. Keep your expectations realistic. You may love the job, but it won't love you back. Most importantly, know the difference between your work family and your real family. Your work family can (and will) be fickle. If you treat your real family with respect, they'll be there when the job isn't. 

Thanks for giving me this opportunity.

MARK: Ellen, thank you for joining us here on Hook’em & Book’em.

*******

Author and writer, Ellen Kirschman, MSW, PhD, has been a police and public safety psychologist for over 30 years. Ellen’s work with first responders has taken her to four countries and 22 states. After giving up her private practice, Ellen spends her time writing, teaching, and volunteering as a clinician at the West Cost Post Trauma Retreat for first responders. Her first book, I Love a Cop: What Police Families Need to Know, has sold more than 100,000 copies. Her next book, I Love a Fire Fighter: What the Family Needs to Know was penned after the tragic events of 9/11. Her next non-fiction book, published this year, was Counseling Cops: What Clinicians Need to Know, the third in the ‘Need to Know’ series. Just released, Burying Ben, is her first foray into the fiction world of writing.

Ellen lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband, a photographer and a retired remodeling contractor. In their spare time, Ellen and her husband enjoy hiking, traveling, and cooking. Find out more about Ellen at her web site at www.ellenkirschman.com.

BEYOND RECOGNITION: An LAPD Helicopter Pilot’s Story of Survival Over Adversity

[Editor’s Note: We are privilege to have Ron Corbin as a guest today, a man who served during the Vietnam war as a helicopter pilot, surviving two tours of duty in that war-torn country before serving another six years as an LAPD police officer and pilot. Corbin’s flying career with LAPD ended when he and another police officer crashed in the mountains above Los Angeles, leaving his trainee dead and Corbin with 2nd and 3rd degree burns over 70 percent of his body. He left LAPD, continued college and graduate studies, and later served with Las Vegas Metro Police Department. Beyond Recognition, among other things, is about his love of flying and his story of survival over adversity.]

By Ron Corbin
After two tours in Vietnam as a chief warrant officer pilot flying Huey “slicks,” the Army offered me a direct

commission to a 2nd lieutenant if I re-enlisted. With no end in sight to the war, accepting “Uncle Sam’s” offer would mean another combat tour. I decided not to push-my-luck,” and signed-out.

To make a living as a husband and father, I returned to my old job in Southern California at UPS, putting on hold my career ambition of continuing to fly. While watching TV one evening at dinner time, a recruiting ad came on for LAPD. In the commercial, the helicopters flown by officers assigned to the Department’s air unit flashed across the screen. I looked at my wife, Kathy, and asked her what she thought about me joining the police department.

She wasn’t too keen on the idea, knowing the hazards of being a police officer. She suggested I look into the City or County Fire Department and trying to fly for them. To me, having to be a fireman first with no guarantee of ever getting to be a pilot didn’t seem any safer of a profession than being a street cop. So in my warped sense of humor, which at the time seemed logical to me, I justified my thought by saying that “I had been shot at in Vietnam, so being shot at as a cop won’t be that big of a deal. Running into a burning, smoked-filled building seemed to be a stupid idea, so I’d rather be a cop.” And with that, I started the process of becoming a Los Angeles Policeman in 1971.

After a few years fighting crime “Adam-12 style” on the streets of LA, I was one of the first two or three former military-trained pilots to be accepted into Air Support Division (ASD). Eventually I became one of their flight instructors.

During my two-year tenure as an ASD police pilot, my military training and past experience became a contention of jealousy and resentment by the unit’s chief pilot. I was called an “F-ing jet jockey.” More bitterness evolved when I was appointed by the training sergeant to be an IP under the chief pilot’s supervision.

Ironically, not wanting to be a firefighter due to the dangers of fire, I ended up receiving 70 percent 2nd & 3rd degree burns from a helicopter crash. It was June 11th, 1976, and I was the instructor pilot (IP) training another police student pilot. While landing to a pinnacle in the mountains separating the San Fernando Valley from the greater LA basin, our Bell 47-G model helicopter experienced a loss of power. We crashed and rolled down the mountain 167 feet in a ball of fire. My trainee, Jeff Lindenberg was killed, and I was fortunate to survive.

Due to my injuries, continuing need for skin graft reconstructive surgeries, and years of required rehab, I was pensioned-off from LAPD. At the age of thirty, I was faced with an uncertain future. My two greatest loves, police work and flying, had been taken from me in the blink of an eye. I was also suffering tremendous “Survivor’s Guilt” from the accident. Telling my side of the story would help with closure.

So, after thirty-six years, I finally decided to document some of my memoirs about my accident and the investigation. Having written only a few short magazine articles before, I never really considered myself as being an author for a major book. But, published or unpublished, I knew that doing so would leave something for my children and grandchildren to remember me…and it would expose the truth of what really happened that fateful day. As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, “You don’t write because you want to say something, you write because you’ve got something to say.”

Beyond Recognition was written to expose the truth of what happened in my accident. Rumors and speculation from hangar talk formed among the other pilots and observers in the unit. A lot of misinformation was given to the widow of my trainee, Lesa Lindenberg. As a result, she naturally shifted blame to me as the IP who was charged with keeping her husband safe. I wanted an opportunity to set the record straight.

Upon researching the transcripts from the investigation, I discovered that the post-accident investigation could not determine a cause; so typically, blame was slanted towards pilot error.

During the Board of Inquiry that was formed to investigate and interview, several interesting things occurred. The chief pilot took advantage of my hospitalization and traumatic amnesia to feed the board members lies and misleading statements that reflected negatively on my judgment and the flying skills of my student pilot.

The NTSB investigator, to this day, has never interviewed me, yet submitted her report as a matter of record as to what she thought the physical evidence was that led to the cause. As the IP and sole survivor, I find that quite intriguing.

And lastly, when litigation convened between the City of LA, the LAPD, and corporate attorneys representing Textron, Lycoming, and Bell Helicopter, a vital piece of wreckage recovered at the accident scene “mysteriously disappeared” from all the other pieces retained for investigation. This was nothing short of a “cover up” to protect and shift accountability of others’ responsibility and involvement.

Beyond Recognition goes beyond physical appearance that I exude with all my burns and scars. It goes beyond comprehending that military pilots have training and experience that cannot be duplicated from learning to fly at the local airport. It goes beyond the tolerance I needed to accept unwarranted blame for the accident by peers and friends. And it goes beyond understanding what it is to suffer a lifetime of “Survivor’s Guilt.”

*********

Ron Corbin served two tours in Vietnam as an Army helicopter and instructor pilot.  He received numerous unit and individual ribbons for combat action, to include being awarded the Air Medal 31 times, once with a “V” device for valor.  Honorably discharged in 1969, he joined the LAPD as a policeman and pilot/instructor pilot for the Air Support Division.  Retiring from LAPD after an on-duty helicopter accident, he finished his college and graduate education.

He holds a Masters in elementary education and a Ph.D. in security administration with an emphasis in terrorism threats to America’s nuclear resources.  Joining the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department in 1993 as a crime prevention specialist, his specialty was Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design (CPTED).  He attended training in this discipline at the National Crime Prevention Institute, University of Louisville.  His CPTED subject matter expertise led him to be interviewed in Reader’s Digest, Sunset Magazine, PetroMart Business and Las Vegas Life magazines.

He also was responsible for publishing Metro’s in-house training journal, the Training Wheel.  Ron has been a contributing columnist to Las Vegas Now magazine as well as a guest lecturer on Royal Caribbean International Cruise Lines, addressing citizens’ personal safety issues.  He is the previous author of stories published in several anthologies, and recently authored Beyond Recognition (Oak Tree Press), a memoir about  his helicopter crash with LAPD.  Ron retired as LVMPD’s academy training manager in 2011.  He and his wife Kathy have three children, six grandchildren, and live in Las Vegas.

Kay's Words blog interview: Mark Young

Editor’s Note: I am taking a break. My friend, Kay Marshall Strom, posted an interview today on Kay’s Words about … me and Revenge: A Travis Mays Novel. You got it, a little promo. I promise we’ll get back to mystery crime writing, publishing, and law enforcement in the very near future. Click on the link at the end of this post if you’d like to read the interview in its entirety. Otherwise … go ahead and take a break. You deserve it.

Glowing Author: Mark Young

Glowing Author #29

Looking for an entertaining mystery, dripping with suspense and spiced with a dash of romance?  I thought you might be. Which is why I’m glad Mark Young stopped by to tell us about his debut novel.  So, without further delay…

Heeeeeere’s Mark!

Congratulations, Mark! 

Thank you.  And thank you, Kay, for the opportunity to tell others aboutRevenge: A Travis Mays Novel.

So, tell us a bit about your new book. 

Here’s what the backcover says: When a trained killer threatens ex-cop Travis Mays—and those Travis loves—he finds a skilled adversary and an unexpected fight. 

Haunted by his past, Travis begins a new life and a new career, teaching criminology at a  university and building a cabin in the Idaho Mountains. He hires a beautiful river guide, Jessie White Eagle from the Nez Perce tribe, to steer him safely through raging whitewater, only to find that this trip changes everything—for Travis, for Jessie, and for those they hold dear. In the shadows lurks a man—calling himself Creasy—determined to make sure Travis pays for past sins.

It’s a fast-paced thriller that takes readers on a wild ride down Idaho’s whitewater rivers, along the historic Lolo Trail once tread by the Nez Perce nation, and onto the city streets of California. Tighten your helmet. This ride never stops until the last shot is fired and the final body falls. 

Wow!  Not the kind of plot line just anyone could pull off!  Could this be influenced by your “day job”?

Six years ago, I ended a twenty-six year career in law enforcement. It was a challenging and fulfilling mission, but my body finally told me it was time to change direction.

During those years in law enforcement, I was afforded many opportunities as a detective and sergeant not normally available to cops in mid-sized agencies like my own— the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) in California. I worked on several law enforcement task force operations, including the presidential Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force targeting major drug traffickers, and the federal Organized Crime Task Force charged with identifying and prosecuting prison gang leaders.

So when I sat down to write my first crime mystery novel, I was able to draw upon years of experience—people from all walks of life, crime cases, personal impressions, and a little police humor gathered from real characters.

How did you come up with this specific plot line?

Actually, my attempt to learn to fly fish led to it. After leaving law enforcement, I needed to move my family from California to a more rural setting. So we packed up and moved to a small town in eastern Washington, a few miles from the Idaho border.

One of the things I promised myself was that I’d learn to fly fish. One of the fishing areas lay in central Idaho, along the beautiful Clearwater, Selway, and Lochsa rivers. Truly God’s country. The Nez Perce (NP) Indian reservation straddles a good chunk of these mountains, and I developed an interest in their culture and history. I began to envision a story where a character from my law enforcement world connects with a character from the NP law enforcement world, and they work together to solve a crime while learning about each other’s way of life.

I began to research the cultural, historical and present-day challenges of the NP. I interviewed the chief of the NP Tribal Police, members of the NP tribe, spiritual leaders in the community, and one individual who headed up archeology projects of this Indian culture for more than thirty years. Unfortunately, I could not use most of what I learned for this novel. I hope to dish out additional morsels of information in upcoming sequels to Revenge.

My interest in cultural history arises from my own personal history and experiences. I can trace my heritage, through my mother’s side, back to the Cherokee nation, with roots in Oklahoma. And, in 1973, I had an opportunity as a reporter to travel to South Dakota where I interviewed American Indian Movement (AIM) leaders Dennis Banks and Russell Means during the takeover of Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. During the standoff between AIM members and federal authorities, I was able to move into the town during the siege and interview members of the Oglala Sioux Nation about conditions they faced on the reservation.

The plot for Revenge was spawned from this background.

Click on this link to read the rest of the interview.